The Dantooine Crash Site Five Months Later

It's been more than five months since the Jannimak crash-landed on Dantooine and I wrote about how I thought it was bold of Broadsword to experiment with a new form of endgame, though I also saw the potential for problems with the way certain mechanics worked. I wanted to take some time to look back at how things have panned out for me in practice, because not everything has gone as expected, at least for me personally. I obviously can't speak for everyone.

Firstly, I've not been as persistently engrossed by the crash site as I expected, and I think it's the first in-game reputation grind they've added that I didn't max out in close to the minimum amount of time required. At the time of me writing this, my reputation rank on Darth Malgus is still only Hero (the 4th out of 6 in total).

Usually, with a new daily area, Mr Commando and I would do the weekly mission there every week and max out our reputation in short order. He's not into SWTOR anymore to the degree that I am, but that's the kind of thing he still logs in for. However, Mr Commando didn't like the crash site on Dantooine at all. I did briefly mention our abysmal run through the area together in my original post, and he basically told me he never wanted to go back there again. Countless deaths to overtuned encounters aside, he just didn't like the whole gameplay of it one bit I think.

There was one week when there was a seasons objective to do 15 Dantooine encounters, and since I figured that this is something that should be pretty fun to do as a group, I co-opted the latter half of my guild's social night for it. Even that turned out to be a bit of a mixed bag though. It's true that having a dozen people in an ops group made every encounter pretty quick to do, but it was also like herding cats, as people's experience levels ranged from "had been grinding the rep to the max every week" to "had never stepped foot in the area before" and it was challenging to keep everyone working together. The newbies needed guidance on where to go and what to do for each step of the introductory quest chain, while the more experienced players constantly wanted to wander off somewhere else for reasons such as "oh, I see that one encounter is up over there, I still need that one for the achievement so I'll just pop over there quickly". In the end, people said it had been fun, but I felt exhausted and didn't really want to go back to do it like that again.

So I've mostly been on my own in terms of working with GSI (the other one), and I kind of found that it didn't gel very well with the way I usually play. For example, long-time readers of the blog will know that I'm very motivated/guided by Conquest. When I decide to play a character in a given week, I usually want to play them enough to earn 100k conquest points and not much more, and then I switch to an alt. And for a conquest player... Dantooine is kind of meh!

You get a small amount of points for each encounter you do, but you could complete that objective faster and more easily on pretty much any other planet. Aside from that you get a good chunk of points for advancing the reputation from each encounter completed, but that's only once per day. At the same time, the place lacks many sources of easy points that you'd find pretty much everywhere else: there's no "complete missions" objective, nothing for killing enemies, and no harvesting nodes to gather (except for a few enemies that can be bioanalysed or scavenged).

So from a Conquest point of view, the best thing to do is basically to go and do one encounter per day for the rep and leave it at that. Even that can be awkward to do because due to the limited quick travel options available, just getting to the encounter can take longer than the encounter itself sometimes, meaning I haven't always bothered.

Lest you might think that this means I haven't actually spent that much time on Dantooine, there is an aspect to this that I haven't gone into yet: As mentioned above there was a seasons objective in the first week of this season to do 15 crash site encounters, and a couple of weeks ago there was another one to do 25. And I've actually gone and done those on all servers, racking up over 250 encounters completed in those two weeks alone.

(If that makes you go "Shintar, how that does gel with you saying that you haven't been that enthused about the game and that you've been finding the current Galactic Season too grindy?", I never claimed to be an entirely logical actor. Yes, doing all those dynamic encounters was grindy as heck too, but it just happened to be something I wanted to do at the time.)

Doing this gave me a very different perspective on the zone. Firstly, it's definitely more fun and feels more "worthwhile" when you're doing more than one encounter at a time. The most entertaining thing is probably when you manage to get a "train" going with other players that just surges from one encounter to the next, dispatching each one quickly and efficiently. However, that's not something you even get a chance to experience everywhere, because which server you're on makes a huge difference.

While interest in the crash site has generally dropped off since its launch, you can still go there on Star Forge for example, and on this biggest of all servers it'll be bustling at pretty much every time of day. If you ever find yourself going to Dantooine there and it seems a tad quiet, it's usually because the game actually spun up a second PvE instance and that one doesn't have as many players in it.

Compare this to somewhere like Shae Vizla, the tiny APAC server, and it's like night and day. On Shae Vizla it was rare that I'd even run into a single other player most times. On the plus side, this taught me a lot about various encounters, because when they fly by really fast it can sometimes be hard to tell what's happening. When you're the only person doing anything on the other hand, you get to see every single stage properly and actually have to learn what to do because there's nobody else there to hold your hand or help you out. I learned to solo certain tough encounters via use of crowd control and kiting, but I'm still convinced that there are some that just aren't doable alone. There were several times I found the glacial biome stuck on the "Cryonest Matron" transition encounter for example because that one's just too overwhelming and with no groups around that area was basically dead and could no longer be played.

There was exactly one time I managed to get it down, when I think I happened to be on at around APAC prime time on a weekend and there were at least a few other people in the zone. When glacial went into transition, we all converged there and managed to take it down with the whole five of us or however many we were (not a huge number).

The other servers were all in-between. Darth Malgus and Satele Shan always felt reasonably busy. Tulak Hord had some good times and some bad times, and Leviathan was also very quiet but not quite as bad as Shae Vizla. So I don't think this area (and any similar ones Broadsword decides to create in the future) does the game any favours in terms of the perception that certain servers are dead or dying.

Another aspect of the Datooine experience that hasn't worked out quite the way I'd hoped have been the reputation rewards. It was my understanding that as you went up in levels, you'd unlock counters to the various hazards that would make all three biomes less painful to traverse on all your alts. However, this turned out to not be the case, as access to the console that gives the various immunity buffs is actually locked behind completing the intro quest chain at least up to the point where you get sent to the core on every single character.

As someone who's done encounters on Dantooine on something like twenty different alts, this meant that each and every one of them had to do at least ten encounters without any of the buffs, which in practice has meant that I've only been able to use the reputation rewards very rarely, and the vast majority of my time has been spent on foot, suffering from debuffs, regardless of my reputation rank. Needless to say, this has sucked. Fortunately this is something the devs have said they will actually rectify in the next patch, so we'll see how much that improves my experience.

Regardless of that though, the rep rewards I've actually had a chance to try have all felt kind of half-baked to be honest. Like the fact that the immunity console only lets you apply one buff at a time when the way the whole zone works encourages you to hop between different biomes every twenty to thirty minutes, meaning you have to constantly switch buffs and pay for a new one or stay in the same area way longer than makes sense.

Same thing with the weird taxi pass, only with that one the problem is the other way round: the taxi pass allows you to hop back and forth between different biomes more quickly - for half an hour. But I just said that the game encourages you to switch every twenty to thirty minutes (whenever an area transitions basically), so you buy the taxi pass to use it... once? Twice at max? All these different pieces just don't fit together in a way that makes sense to me, so I've been largely ignoring them even when I did have access. Which again, is kind of disappointing.

Finally, there's the NiM-level core boss at the end of the quest chain, for which you need to have pushed all three biomes to level three to unlock access to it for two hours at a time. People were sceptical about that setup from the beginning, but I was more sanguine about it. Truth is, it hasn't really worked out for me either, though not in exactly the way I expected.

Getting the core to be aligned isn't that much of a problem at least on Darth Malgus, as it does happen reasonably often, but the timing can be a random and that is a problem for a group of middle aged raiders with average jobs and families that usually carve out a specific time slot to do progression content with their team. Without wanting to sound judgemental, I get the impression that most of the people who have successfully tackled the core are not limited by such constraints, for example because they stream as part of their day job. This also aligns with the fact that the only time I've seen the core myself (not killed it) was when I was helping out Swtorista and friends on one of her streams.

On Darth Malgus, I've grouped up with random guildies who just happened to be online a couple of times and went inside to have a look, but we didn't even make it past any of the mini bosses. They really are super hard and you can't really expect to take them down with any old group. The buffs are supposed to help, but you'd really need the whole group to have them, and I clearly underestimated how many of the people I run ops with just don't engage with casual content like a rep grind at all. So you've got all these hurdles of needing people to be able to be online at the right time, they need to be sufficiently skilled, and they need to have had an interest in grinding the rep, and that's just too many obstacles. I'm not personally upset about this because I don't feel like I'm missing much, but it does feel a bit like a design failure to have this content that will only ever be seen by a miniscule part of the player base, not just because it's hard but because it also has these additional hurdles to access on top of the difficulty. 

A couple of months ago I filled out a dev survey about Dantooine and I did put a lot of what I said above in the answers to the questions there. One question that stood out to me was that they asked whether I thought that Broadsword should invest in making more planets/zones like the Dantooine crash site, and my answer was "not exactly like this, no" because I think it has too many issues that the devs are unlikely to want to go back and address. (I was actually very surprised when they announced on stream that they were going back to change things like the intro quest chain being mandatory on every single character.) I still think the idea of dynamic encounters as endgame has potential, and as I said, the basic gameplay of running around with a group of people to do encounters can be very fun. I just feel like on Dantooine, the puzzle has too many pieces that don't fit well together and prevent the experience from being as fun as it maybe could be.