I mentioned in my post about the 7.6 livestream that the devs revealed that they're also working on updating NPCs and player characters with new textures, shaders and more. They emphasised that they were aware of how important it was that your character still felt like your character afterwards, and the examples they showed in their previews looked very good.
I didn't expect them to also push this update onto the PTS immediately afterwards, but they did... and I found out about it because there was much wailing and gnashing of teeth about it. Well, actually, the first time I heard about it was when Intisar showed me a before and after screenshot of his main and commented that his Jedi suddenly looked old enough to be her own mother, which just made me laugh. However, as I heard more reports and saw a couple of honestly kind of appalling-looking screenshots, I got curious - something was clearly wrong here.
So I updated the PTS myself to have a look and... honestly, at first I didn't get what the fuss was about, as both my Republic and Imperial main (who are a body type four cyborg/human respectively) pretty much looked fine to me. But then I loaded up some alts and yeah, I could see that things looked rough. Doing my own before and after shots for my Chiss agent and Mirialan smuggler, they both appeared to have aged about twenty years each.
I figured that obviously couldn't be right, considering that it went completely against what had been said and shown on the livestream, so I was still more amused than worried. I posted some feedback on the PTS forums, but in what I thought was a kind of playful tone - you might want to review some settings on these, guys! I also took further heart from seeing posts like this one from someone who has some knowledge about 3D models and textures and showed that a lot of the issues people were seeing could indeed feasibly just be caused by one slider basically being set to the wrong number.
However, the SWTOR community loves a good freak-out and I still saw many posts that weren't just pointing out that something was wrong, but whose authors were seriously upset, threatening to unsubscribe forever over this, and so on and so forth. As someone who's 41 in real life, I was honestly a bit offended by some of the comments that claimed that the changes made their characters look 70 years old. Have you ever seen a 70-year-old in real life, kiddo?! I'll admit that some of the memes people came up with were amusing, but all in all I found the whole thing a bit tiring, considering that it seemed so obvious to me that it was simply a bug on the PTS, which exists specifically so people can find bugs before go-live.
Fortunately the latest PTS update has improved things and the worst of the panic seems to have subsided... though I'm still seeing some criticisms in the new PTS feedback thread, the most poignant of which to me was the one pointing out that the new faces look a lot worse on low graphics settings than the old faces, which I agree is definitely something that should be looked into.
I also had a kind of strange experience when checking out the new update myself, as I basically logged into the PTS, clicked through my characters on the character selection screen one by one and thought "yep, these all look great". However, after I took a few more screenshots for comparison purposes, I lined them up next to the "buggy" faces and they... actually didn't look all that different? As in, there are still some pretty noticeable differences compared to the old faces, and I can still see more wrinkles than I'd necessarily like to on my idealised video game heroines, but at the same time - it didn't bother me at all while in game, only when staring intensely at the close-up shots, which is not something I would usually do while playing.
Bugged PTS vs. updated PTS
Live vs. updated PTS
Bugged PTS vs. updated PTS
Live vs. updated PTS
My conclusion for now is that I'll be fine and will be happy with my characters getting updated, but I also feel like I have no clue how the majority of players will react to these changes. As mentioned, there are still plenty of complaints being raised in the feedback thread, some of which I can kind of see, but others just make me feel like Pam from The Office, going "They're the same picture" (meaning I honestly don't see what all the fuss is about).
And maybe that makes you think that my eyesight is lacking and obviously everyone will still hate this update, to which I'd respond: Will they though? Because I've also spoken to people who saw that very first, bugged update and genuinely thought it was fine too, going "sure, my character looks a bit older than before, but so what". My hunch is that most players will probably be fine, because even if you do notice differences between old and new that you don't like in the direct comparison shots, I reckon most players don't actually spend that much time staring intently at their character's nostrils in everyday play if you get what I mean. I don't think the differences will be as noticeable when you're actually playing the game normally and not glaring at your character like they're about to have their police mugshot taken.
All in all, I guess this goes to prove once again that player character updates in MMOs are a tricky thing. I remember when I briefly resubbed to World of Warcraft in late 2013 after having been away from the game for more than a year, the low-resolution old character models that I'd always liked before suddenly appalled me, as I'd gotten too used to SWTOR's much better-looking avatars. When WoW then updated its models in 2014, I logged in once just to check out my characters' new looks, and while I thought Blizzard did a decent job with the upgrades overall, I also noted at the time that many characters looked older and angrier than before, and ten years later I'm still not over what they did to female tauren. So this kind of thing is always a bit of a gamble, but remembering my own reaction to WoW's old character models in 2013, it's probably also a necessary one if the game is supposed to continue attracting new players.
If you have any doubts about this update yourself, I can only recommend downloading the PTS, copying over some of your characters, and giving feedback in the relevant forum thread. If you've already seen your characters' updated looks, how do you feel about them?
Hmm. Just based on the comparison pairs in the post, the thing that really stands out for me isn't so much the aging (Although there certainly is some.) so much as the way the new versions change the emotional impact, sometimes quite radically.
ReplyDeleteIt's interesting that right at the end of the post you mention in passing that the WoW revamped models looked "older and angrier" because that's exactly what all of these do too. Everyone of them has at the very least lost any hint of a smile and in most cases replaced it with a very obvious frown. They all look grim and unhappy now, whereas the originals vary from neutral to mildly upbeat.
As for players not spending a lot of time staring at their characters' faces in play, that's true enough but a lot of players also spend some significant amount of time not just taking screenshots but taking selfies. I know I do. I also generally like to make characters that look cheerful or happy and I'd be pretty pissed off if a change to the graphics made any of my characters look like they'd been turned down for a promotion on the same day they backed the car into a gatepost.
It's funny to me that you mention mood because to me my characters don't look cheerful on the old shots at all. Also, there are people on the forums complaining about the exact opposite, that their characters as they are now look angry and badass but the update makes them look too smiley and happy. We can't even seem to agree on what we're seeing when looking at the exact same shot, haha!
DeleteBody type 4 females forever! ^_^
ReplyDeleteI'm fine with them. Pallais herself is the only character I've been playing so as long as she's reasonably herself I'm happy. Given how much has happened in the story over the years, especially the five years of carbonite, I can hand-wave minor changes away if needed.
None of the changes are as big as the ones Blizzard did for female Worgen -- which was an improvement -- so I'm comfortable with what they are doing to make the game more visually appealing to potential new and returning players.
As someone who's done a fair amount of portrait photography, one of the things that's always obvious is the stark difference between a child's face (with unblemished skin) and an adult's face (with weathering, wrinkles, moles, and many other details, even if we're talking about a relatively young adult). If you zoom in on a child's face, it's almost like you're looking at a doll's face in terms of complexion. (Obviously, I'm saying all of this in broad terms. Every person is unique!) I would guess that adding -any- level of detail to a SWTOR character's face will inherently trigger a 'this face now looks older' perception for most players, even if the changes are small. On a different note, from the pictures I've seen so far, I think the catchlights in the characters' eyes are fantastic; it's what real, living eyes in real conditions look like. The effort that Broadsword has put into even considering and trialling the visual updates (landscapes, and now characters) has been a pleasant surprise.
ReplyDeleteThank you for your feedback as a photographer - I find it very informative and interesting.
DeleteSome people have suggested that the character overhaul shouldn't be a fixed update, but rather implemented as a slider, so that everyone can decide for themselves how little (unchanged appearance, baby skin) or much (wrinkled, weather-beaten) the visual changes take effect.
Personally, I think that's a good idea - what do you think?
As for the reworked landscapes:
There has been mostly positive feedback on this (but also some criticism).
What I personally noticed is that the new statues on Korriban don't look appropriate for a planet where there are probably often sandstorms and the statues should look sanded down rather than like they were just put up yesterday - that's why I'm not sure if I actually prefer the looks of the original ones.
@DB: Very true about the baby faces. I found this very noticeable with the update to female human characters in WoW, where there were no wrinkles involved, but they still looked older "somehow" just for being more than a blank texture with big eyes and pouty lips after the revamp!
Delete@Eye of the beholder: Player-scaleable ageing effects would be a great addition to the game (if the developers are going to make any changes to player characters' visual appearances in the first place) and would be an additional revenue stream (since any visual changes to player characters post-creation will cost CC, if I remember rightly). How easy or difficult it would be to implement would be another issue, as would be the approach.
DeleteGiven the visual style of SWTOR and limitations on the game engine, I'd guess that a few options (e.g., young, mature, old, ancient, where maybe 'young appearance' = 'original SWTOR appearance') might be the way to go. I don't think a flexible sliding scale (say) would fit the game's style, but that's just my opinion. Whatever happens, Broadsword should definitely have -some- option there to leave characters' appearances unchanged from their original SWTOR appearances.
Regarding Korriban: interesting view. My own imagining is of Korriban as an environmentally 'lifeless' planet, closer to an airless moon in ambience ... more tomb-like, thematically fitting the literal tombs that are there. Obviously, in-game there is an atmosphere there, and undoubtedly some wind, but I never actually imagined it as a very windy place. Now you've gotten me thinking about what it might take to implement weather patterns in SWTOR. My main game in recent times has been Conan Exiles and you actually do get sandstorms in that game!
@Shintar: WoW was the first MMORPG I ever came across (I still remember being blown away by the game trailers) but I just didn't have the money for a computer that would actually run it. (Come to think of it, I wouldn't have had the money for a WoW subscription, either!) It remains to this day as one of the 'big name' MMORPGs that I still haven't played yet ...
DeleteIt is annoying when people in charge make changes to 'upgrade' something when ... it isn't actually better afterwards. OK, let me stop right here, before I get my soapbox out. ;)
@DB
DeleteYou're right, of course - I didn't mean slider, but options.
I suppose you can tell it's been a while since I last played SWTOR (and that's the understatement of the year).
Similarly with Korriban:
While I have certain memories of the place, the details elude me - so maybe my memories are deceiving me.
Nevertheless, I think environmental storytelling is important when designing objects visually instead of just stubbornly focussing on "looks crisp (and new)" - I feel the graphical overhaul went a bit overboard in that regard.
I think the ongoing discussion shows the whole spectrum of the MMORPG community:
ReplyDeleteOn the one hand, there are people who slap together a char within a few seconds, give it a more or less suitable name (e.g. toilet brush) and then it's off to the (levelling) races.
Appearance is relatively irrelevant, the main thing is to be tall and muscular - especially as helmets are worn anyway because it looks "cool".
Such players naturally give little to no thought to the faces of their chars.
On the other hand, there are people like me who can literally spend hours designing a character down to the smallest detail, thinking hard about how s/he's called (not to mention the RP background).
Sometimes they end up deleting a character afterwards because they don't like a certain detail or the name after all.
Helmets are often not worn / shown either (at least not if they cover the entire face).
These people know their chars down to the last detail and immediately realise when something is "off".
I can therefore well understand why some players react with extreme restraint when it comes to the visual overhaul of characters - and developers have to be particularly careful here because otherwise they will quickly alienate some people.
In this respect, I still think with horror of the reworking of the char models in WoW.
Personally, I really like the vanilla models despite their washed-out and low-poly looks because I grew up with them - the new ones less so.
I think that despite all the effort that has undoubtedly gone into the overhaul, in most cases they have strayed too far from the original.
Some models were far too disneyfied (e.g. tauren), others just look uncanny, even creepy (female humans and gnomes).
And even the models that I think worked out well (e.g. dwarves) have been ruined by giving them worse animations.
Modern dwarves no longer run - they bounce, like pandaren. Awful (imo).
But back to SWTOR.
First of all, I agree with you that the discussion at times lacks objectivity - especially when it comes to age comparisons.
People are desperately trying to generate attention with exaggerations.
"The new models look 20 years older."
"The new models look 30 years older."
"Anyone offer more?"
"They look 60 years old."
"Do I hear more bids?"
"70"
"To the first, to the second..."
"80"
"The winning bid goes to the blogger with the Twilek head. Congratulations."
Honestly, some of this reminds me of age-shaming.
I've also recently looked at many pictures of character faces and compared them - some look much worse, many look similar (especially the ones after the applied fixes) - so similar, in fact, that I'm now wondering whether the overhaul is even necessary in the first place and if it wouldn't be better to tackle other, more important stuff - e.g. hair.
By hair, I don't necessarily mean the hairstyles, but the way hair looks, like moulded plastic - I see a lot more need for action in that regard, to be honest.
However, I hope that the developers don't rush into things and, if in doubt, work on the overhaul a little longer so that everyone is happy with the changes in the end (spoiler: That's not going to happen *evil laughter*).
To be honest I don't think the people who don't care about their character's appearance at all are even involved in this discussion. It's just that it's quite possible to care about how your character looks, look at this update, and go "yep, still my character, just more high-res", while for others even a tiny change to the lines of the mouth can seemingly ruin everything. I feel for them, but can't say I can truly relate. While I'm a perfectionist in some areas of life, this isn't one of them.
DeleteI actually like the vanilla WoW models too and have been playing Classic quite happily - the problem I had in 2013 was consistency, because the old models looked way outdated compared to the newer races, environments, and even armour pieces, which was just too jarring for me.
I personally don't feel like this particular update to the SWTOR characters was needed, but I can understand why they did it because I've certainly heard the complaint that our characters look weirdly outdated compared to the newer NPCs often enough. I'd actually be more weary about an update to hair because a lot of what people bemoan about hair in the game was an intentional stylistic choice to resemble the Clone Wars animation style, and I just don't see how they could make it look more like real hair without dramatically changing the game's aesthetic. I guess we'll see.
@Eye of the beholder: I once delayed my current Jedi Consular's landing on a planet (for the next phase of the storyline) because ... I couldn't decide what outfit she should wear. To be clear, I have more than one character 'on the go' at any given time, but it was indeed an entire week between when she arrived in orbit and when she finally set foot on the surface. And her arrival has been spoken of by the fashionistas of that world ever since. :)
Delete@Eye of the beholder: Oops, I missed putting "for a week" after "planet" in that first sentence.
DeleteRegarding visual upgrades, one thing I would like to see (but it will probably never happen) is Broadsword retroactively creating 'hood down' versions of outfits. (Not an original wish, I know.) Part of me wonders whether it'd be feasible for Broadsword to code something to go through players' accounts, identify the helmet/chestpiece stamped onto each character's current outfit, and generate a list of the most commonly seen helmets/chestpieces in use, then start working their way from the top of that list. (They could also set certain criteria, e.g., ignore any character that hasn't been played in the past 12 months, to manage the scope.) One can but dream.
@Shintar
DeleteThat's true, of course - those who don't care about faces are probably less involved in the discussion and are just wondering what the fuss is all about.
Yes, I can understand that.
That's a fundamental problem with MMORPGs, especially those with a certain lifespan - as you wrote: at some point there's a discrepancy between the old and new graphics.
That would certainly have bothered me, too - if I had played WoW long enough.
Personally, I never had a deeper interest in WoW beyond vanilla and TBC - even WotLK, which is considered by many to be the pinnacle of WoW, wasn't to my liking.
As a (casual) roleplayer, I found the idea of death knights fighting on the side of the living absurd and revolting.
To be honest, I was already bothered by the fact that the Forsaken were accepted into the ranks of the Horde.
Hence, as long as I played WoW I always enjoyed the consistency of blurry, low-poly char models in a blurry, low-poly environment. :-P
But seriously, I think the comic-like graphics of vanilla WoW have aged comparatively well - unlike games with "realistic" graphics from the time.
But I digress...
@DB
Haha, I can just imagine a reception committee waiting in vain for a week for the consular to leave her spaceship.
"Here she comes - FINALLY. What took her so long?"