tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1538233114133115363.post1830962584000396160..comments2024-03-26T20:47:12.919+00:00Comments on Going Commando | A SWTOR Fan Blog: "Should I play SWTOR?" A review after ten months.Shintarhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16758343475446510635noreply@blogger.comBlogger18125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1538233114133115363.post-74836069085627276552013-10-28T22:22:14.991+00:002013-10-28T22:22:14.991+00:00SWTOR has grown to address a few of the issues abo...SWTOR has grown to address a few of the issues above and a Winter 2013 Game build review update would be great. There is a big update being done soon and new planets and worlds. <br /><br />A few missed points. <br />1. Early on you realize to advance you must team with groups and guilds or you will be stuck at low levels. I suggest starting with a throw away character to learn and then start fresh once you know your way around. <br />2. Customizing weapons and Companion Pets are very interesting and they can use guns or light sabers too and now they have COMIC-CON like eye candy and large space ships. <br />3. You left out based on your answers and decisions you can favor the dark side and light side and that effects outcome over time. <br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1538233114133115363.post-64094147706776294452012-11-05T22:08:26.951+00:002012-11-05T22:08:26.951+00:00I agree that there were some awkward difficulty ju...I agree that there were some awkward difficulty jumps in the past (hello there, EC normal on release), but they were never as big a problem to me as they seem to have been to you. /shrug. That said, Bioware has worked on smoothing out the difficulty curve since then.<br /><br />I don't think story modes require much of a grind at all (leaving aside previous weird difficulty jumps as mentioned above), and I don't see what's wrong with making people work a bit for their hard mode progression?<br /><br />Anyway, thanks for the comment!Shintarhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16758343475446510635noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1538233114133115363.post-31720242693315632812012-11-05T18:53:51.119+00:002012-11-05T18:53:51.119+00:00To be honest I am not impressed with Swtor endgame...To be honest I am not impressed with Swtor endgame but I think you already knew that ;)<br /><br />There's an obvious experimentation of sort going on and it's hurting. Either it's a bit too easy, or too hard and then the progression from normal fp to hardmode fp to operations has a few weird jumps. <br /><br />Likewise, the heavy emphasis on grinding commendation is hurting for guilds like Snark Side where people have limited time outside of raids. <br /><br />At points, Swtor endgame has been very frustrating because of the hapazard progression. They seem to want to fix it but I'm a bit dubious.<br /><br />Anyway, that was a nice post and I hope you'll forgive this grumbly blogger.Lonomonkeyhttp://screammonkey.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1538233114133115363.post-61879805452785907132012-11-05T17:19:48.234+00:002012-11-05T17:19:48.234+00:00There is a difference between a campaign on rails ...There is a difference between a campaign on rails and a structured campaign. Like you I spent (and spend) most of my game time as a GM. In that role I develop the world, the scenario structure, and the plot devices. What I don't do is tell the players that, "Your character does not want to discipline the insolent non-entity who just insulted you. Are you going to praise him or ignore him?" That is the level of choice I have in an MMO. <br /><br />The most interesting games I've run all had moments where the players either did something I didn't expect and had to improvise through or they did something profoundly dumb and they had to deal with the consequences. Do I try to get them to follow the structure? Sure, but I don't tell them that your character decides to do X because that's what my plot says.<br /><br />As you said, you were going to think up tricks to get them to go the way you wanted. That's a structured approach and not putting them on rails. Consider:<br /><br />Player: "I'm going to go to the beach and party."<br />GM: "No, you are going into the old factory."<br /><br />vs.<br /><br />GM: "The bus to the beach screeches to a stop. The driver leans on the horn and yells an impressive collection of profanities at a man who ran across the road. He looks back at the driver, a stare you've only seen on the worst of the cultists. The driver shrinks back and starts throwing things at the man, including the keys to the bus. The pedestrian has grabbed the keys and vanished through the door of a building that looks like it hasn't been used since the war. It seems you aren't going anywhere until the keys are returned. What do you do?"Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1538233114133115363.post-88398331140996650992012-11-05T13:40:03.840+00:002012-11-05T13:40:03.840+00:00Well, I've always viewed P&P roleplaying a...Well, I've always viewed P&P roleplaying as an exercise in group storytelling, with the DM being the one who has the final word. And I have no problem accepting Bioware as my substitute GM. ;) <br /><br />Also, most of my worst P&P moments have been down to players saying "but this is what I want to do" and then doing something stupid that ruined the game for everyone else. If I want complete control of my character's actions, I can always write.Shintarhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16758343475446510635noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1538233114133115363.post-19590702979723084172012-11-05T13:04:18.893+00:002012-11-05T13:04:18.893+00:00Well done, Shintar.
/applauseWell done, Shintar.<br /><br />/applauseRedbeardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05306063084983025771noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1538233114133115363.post-37836895278311123292012-11-05T08:11:45.334+00:002012-11-05T08:11:45.334+00:00Thanks for the review Shintar, half-inspires me to...Thanks for the review Shintar, half-inspires me to go back to SW:TOR once it's F2P and play through a class story. I generally like Bioware games and I reckon I would enjoy just playing 1 or 2 class stories to max. Once I get done with Halo 4, GW2, MoP, and a million other things....!<br /><br />As for bad-DMs, I don't know that I agree that a DM on rails is a bad DM, or that a "harsh" DM is necessarily a problem. Back in the day I mainly DMed rather than played, and there were definitely occasions when playing Call of Cthulu that I "forced" the rails on the players. I used loads sof pre-prepared materials, hand-written clue-scrolls soaked in tea and left to dry on a radiator, all sorts of props and sound effects, e.g. the time I made the group role-play their way out of a building with the power out and made them wear blindfolds whilst describing what they were doing with a CD of horror-movie sound effects playing at crucial moments to unsettle them.<br /><br />I mean, technically, they would have been within their rights to say "We want to RP that it's the end of the world anyway, so we go to the beach and spend our last hours drinking mojitos" but as far as I was concerned, I was going to think up any mechanism I could to *force* them into the building in spite of all the dank seawater inexplicably puddled in the hallway!<br /><br />I think as long as the players and the DM both understand whether they are [1] going into a scripted scenario where they are to some extent constrained (and will get a stern ticking off if they decide to role-play going to the pub instead), or [2] settling down for a totally free-form RP session where anything goes, either approach can work. But if the DM is from school [1] and the players from school [2] there will be trouble, but that's a failure of communication at the outset, not a failure of the DM.<br /><br />Hmmm... even writing about my Cthulu DM days makes me want to play that game again!<br /><br />/BoxerdogsAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1538233114133115363.post-79780890537737354352012-11-04T20:53:19.517+00:002012-11-04T20:53:19.517+00:00I'll grant that there are gamist reasons to ha...I'll grant that there are gamist reasons to have the conversations but as someone who was drowning in gifts I never saw much point to it. Once I'd realized how that system worked my characters all took that profession, which I can't remember, until the companions hit max affection.<br /><br />So you're a bad DM survivor? I've been in some games where the DM thought that the campaign was on rails. I don't think I ever lasted more than a session. In a real game you do have choices as a player, even if those choices are bad. In an MMO, and this one is no different, you really don't. The game is on rails and you are along for the ride. There may be some eye candy (dark or light aligned companion) but that's about it. Given that I can't really impact the story I discovered that I'd rather not be bothered with the illusion of choice.<br /><br />I've actually been here all along. I've wanted to like SW:ToR since we were having debates on the forums on how group content would work in a classless game, as everyone expected that there would be no trinity in ToR. I just wish I could connect with it, but in the end it was just another WoW clone with less to do at level cap. It is nice to read someone who does enjoy the experience, if I can't get there.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1538233114133115363.post-68194302518459418332012-11-04T17:52:08.838+00:002012-11-04T17:52:08.838+00:00Yeah, it's a good indication of being near a d...Yeah, it's a good indication of being near a datacron when you find a seemingly lonely companion standing in a corner somewhere in the middle of nowhere and looking at the ceiling. :DShintarhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16758343475446510635noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1538233114133115363.post-34362738599367149932012-11-04T17:47:42.734+00:002012-11-04T17:47:42.734+00:00Oh dear. Perhaps I've just been lucky so far!...Oh dear. Perhaps I've just been lucky so far!<br /><br />(They do seem to be at a complete loss as to what to do when one's Datacron hunting in some of the more interesting places, now that I think about it. Half the time they pace around below you looking up. Which actually works, but...)depizannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1538233114133115363.post-41657357124176383972012-11-04T17:37:05.653+00:002012-11-04T17:37:05.653+00:00Well, TOR's companions aren't completely i...Well, TOR's companions aren't completely immune to that either. I remember having a lot of fun with an elevator in Cademimu where my companion would regularly hurl himself off the platform and die while I waited for the lift. All I could think was: "WTF, Vector?" :DShintarhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16758343475446510635noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1538233114133115363.post-63979811107769930142012-11-04T17:33:34.179+00:002012-11-04T17:33:34.179+00:00Glad you came back to read it!
I agree that havin...Glad you came back to read it!<br /><br />I agree that having long conversations for dailies isn't ideal, but Bioware seems to be moving away from that with the newer ones anyway. That said, having some repeatable quests with conversations is handy from a "gamey" point of view, to increase companion affection and social points while playing with friends.<br /><br />The "meaningful choices" argument seems to be a matter of taste. There are definitely points where your choices <i>do</i> affect the outcome of the story (Imperial agent being a much-cited example), but you're right that many events are inevitable. Personally I don't have a problem with that because I don't expect to be able to always have my way, not even while roleplaying. Might be due to being introduced to P&P RPGs via some very harsh DM-ing. :P<br /><br />Anyway, thanks for the comment!Shintarhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16758343475446510635noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1538233114133115363.post-50559573073920648712012-11-04T17:31:33.899+00:002012-11-04T17:31:33.899+00:00Hm, perhaps it's just marginally better AI. O...Hm, perhaps it's just marginally better AI. One can completely leave companions to their own devices and it works out. I can recall some pretty wonky stuff happening on occasion in WoW (and also City of Heroes, if I remember right) if one didn't pay attention to one's pets. (Pets wandering off, strange chases that needed to be set to Yakkity Sax as the pet and some mob did circles around the area, tank pets not getting agro unless you sent them in first...)depizannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1538233114133115363.post-51447868062719428952012-11-04T17:24:22.230+00:002012-11-04T17:24:22.230+00:00Edited to clarify as I agree. Obviously it can be ...Edited to clarify as I agree. Obviously it can be argued at which point people become "too hardcore" for the content, but I <i>was</i> thinking of the type who chase server firsts when I wrote this.Shintarhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16758343475446510635noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1538233114133115363.post-64155100420697262792012-11-04T17:18:19.423+00:002012-11-04T17:18:19.423+00:00Which other MMOs are you thinking of in regards to...Which other MMOs are you thinking of in regards to the pet classes? My main point of reference is WoW, and I don't recall ever having to do any more pet management there than I have to do in TOR.<br /><br />Good point about the class stories too, though I reckon that playing through the same class story multiple times is still a lot less attractive to most people than getting to see a completely new one.Shintarhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16758343475446510635noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1538233114133115363.post-17386208150890384152012-11-04T17:07:50.470+00:002012-11-04T17:07:50.470+00:00Well, I suppose I should comment...
Congratulatio...Well, I suppose I should comment...<br /><br />Congratulations on writing a neutral piece that avoids the fan-problem most reviews experience. You've managed to discuss SW:ToR as it is and not drag baggage from other games in to try and score points. Overall, I agree with you. Context for the below: I ran an SI to 50 and did the dailies until I was fully geared. Tried PvP and the instances. I also ran an SW to 49, a BH to 45, a JC to 42, and a JK to 3x. I did try to play it the way they seem to intend but I kept trying to find things to do with my SI that didn't involve joining a raiding guild.<br /><br />One major problem area I had with the game was the conversations system. First, it was massively annoying when doing dailies. After I've heard the dialog 10 times I never want to hear it again. Even spacing through it felt like a punishment. Do dailies in a group and you are subject to the slowest person.<br /><br />Second, many of the choices were anti-immersive for me. I come from an old-school role playing background (games like Ars Magica, Shadowrun, The Pool, or other pen and paper). I can tolerate WoW, Rift, and the like because they are combat sims wrapped in the blanket of a persistent world. SW:ToR advertised as RP, that you could decide your character's actions and your decisions mattered. Not really. Even before I hit 50 on the SI, and tried to understand why I (a member of the Dark Council) was taking lip from some functionary, I was looking for the option that didn't exist. Add in that it really doesn't matter what you decide; the story will continue as it will. The only thing that changes is your Light/Dark accounting.<br /><br />I also think that you are underestimating the mental whiplash that those of us who solo or work in a small group feel at 50. You go from not really needing to see anyone else, at least if you are a Tank with healer companion/groupmate, to needing to do everything in an increasingly large group. That is indeed the old style MMO but it really hasn't been true for other games for years.<br /><br />I think I'd simplify the negative summary to: If you like solo/small group content and do not want to run alts this isn't the game for you.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1538233114133115363.post-23188880888035030772012-11-04T16:57:15.416+00:002012-11-04T16:57:15.416+00:00I think you should qualify your "hardcore rai...I think you should qualify your "hardcore raider". Imo, it covers too broad a group.<br /><br />I would say that if you are in the level of WoW guilds which beats all hardmode content early, and competes for world or server firsts (i.e. the Royalty guilds), then TOR raiding is probably too easy for you. <br /><br />But I think that anyone below that very top level will find TOR raiding to be pretty decent and have a bit of challenge.Rohanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09090769681887119989noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1538233114133115363.post-21498036174170778342012-11-04T15:39:19.371+00:002012-11-04T15:39:19.371+00:00I think it's worth mentioning on the companion...I think it's worth mentioning on the companions that they don't require attention during combat like many (most? all other?) MMO's pets. You _can_ control them, but you don't have to - they will fight or heal or whatever all on their own. So people who dislike pet classes solely because they don't want to control two characters in combat shouldn't be scared off.<br /><br />Also, between the various dialogue options and whether one aims for Light, Dark, or some mixture of the two, the class stories not only feel very different from one another but could feel different on a second play-through - some even have multiple possible endings. (As a side note, I find it incredibly fun to play Light Side Imperials. You get away with more than you logically should, of course, but that's kind of entertaining, too.)depizannoreply@blogger.com